Brent Dill (ialdabaoth) wrote in muti_fan,
Brent Dill

Hello, I just found this community. I've got a similar one, called extremebodymod, dedicated to actual technical discussion on how to perform more bizzare types of body modification - it's still empty, but I should start posting on it more frequently.

About me: I'm 30, male, and not interested in limitations to my own body, but definitely interested in the idea of using other peoples' bodies to create 'living sculpture', removing limbs and performing other alterations to make fun and interesting bits of living, breathing, walking (or crawling) art.

I have a lot of layman's medical knowledge, but I haven't attended medical school and wouldn't know the first thing about cutting on someone. I mostly research stuff for 'feasability studies'; trying to figure out how possible it is, for example, to completely remove someone's mouth, nose and eyes, use cheek implant material to completely smooth over the face, and sew up the skin scarlessly so that everything is a completely smooth egg - obviously tracheotomies and stomach tubes make this survivable, assuming someone could perform the surgery. Or, for another example, completely removing someone's upper and lower intestines, and connecting their colon directly to their esophagus in a straight tube, and feeding them through IV for the rest of their life.

I should note at this point that I'm not just talking about fantasy, here - I've been looking for like-minded people for years (with mixed success), trying to build enough of a group that one of these days, say around 2013 or so, I can start actually doing some of this stuff. I figure if we haven't relaxed some of our prudish attitudes about body modification and personal sovereignity by then, we'll all be screwed anyways, so either way it's all cool. ;) I also figure 2013's long enough to get a few interested people through medical school and build an actual staff to work with.

In any case, I'm also a rather prolific artist, making pictures like this one:

and more interesting ideas like this:

or these:

So, anyway, hi - this should be fun.
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omg... *swoons* are you single? *melts at your feet*
First, I don't fit well into concepts of 'single' or 'committed'. This next bit is going to sound exceedingly egotistical, so please bear with me.

I have yet to find someone that is my intellectual equal. Therefore, I do not have committed 'relationships', so much as I have 'projects' - people that I see sufficient potential in to acquire for a few years, and see if I can manipulate them intellectually into opening their minds, thinking more deeply about things, and maintaining proper discourse with me.

Right now, I have a girl Cera - we've been together for about 3 years, and she's currently about as close to an intellectual equal as I've ever had - I'd put her at about half an order of magnitude below me, which is to say about two orders of magnitude above the rest of the population. As a result, she and I are in an odd twilight zone, halfway between 'relationship' and 'ownership'.

Noone else has come even close to her. And even if she were completely on my level, the fact that she WAS completely on my level would preclude any sense of absolute commitment, since anyone else who was also on our level would naturally be seen as just as welcome, and anyone not on our level would be seen more as a possession than competition.

Does this make sense?
Okay... initial swooning reaction over... now it's time to get back to reality...

Have you ever considered seriously acquiring someone to work with, to sculpt into a work of art as you describe? If so, would you be willing to work with your subject, toward a common, shared vision - or would they merely be your clay and canvas, stripped of any input into the artistic process? ...and have you considered the long-term maintenance responsibilityn involved in caring for such a work of art - particularly if it renders your subject into such a state as to be unable to care for its own needs?

I have many ideas of artistic 'sculpting' of my own body, but I am hopelessly frustrated by the inability to actually perform the modifications on myself, and the lack of anyone who would be willing to cooperate with me - both in the achievement of these desires, and in the maintenance that would be needed afterward. My desire is to find myself placed right on that fine line between 'human being' and 'artistic object' - where my needs and desires are still respected and valued and attended to, but where I am completely helplessly unable to meet those needs for myself. The only body-sculptors whom I have come across to this point have not been able to find that balance - either they would have me as simply a piece of property, for which they have no respect as a human being; or else they want me to remain too human, and expect me to be able to function independently as such... and in some cases, the worst of BOTH sides.

To that, what say ye, my friend?
This is an interesting, if thorny issue. The problem here is twofold - rather, it's a single problem that bifurcates one level down. Let me try to describe.

At root, the problem is that I have an ego barely contained within the boundary conditions of the universe. As a result, I'm going to be absolutely convinced that what *I* want is going to be a hundred times better than ANYTHING YOU ever came up with, even as much as I intellectually understand that it's YOUR body, and therefore YOUR right to do what you want with. The only proper resolution I can have to that, is to let you come up with all the ideas, and then treat the resulting questions as interesting engineering problems to wrap my head around. If I get involved in the creative process at all, I'll take over, and this will either result in the precise ownership dilemna you just described, or my eternal resentment over pouring myself into a piece of work, and then not being able to claim that work as my own when it's all said and done.

On the other hand, if I just pop in and out and say "Oh, that will work, but did you know you could do this?", or "You know we're about 2 years off from being able to do that, since you'd basically need to hack off half your skull and run a complete new circulatory system through the projections", or "sure, that's just an example of [insert link here]this surgery[end link], but without the cancer", then we're in the clear as far as sculpting goes, but we miss out on your emotional needs.

You know what might work? Once I get going (which, as I said, I anticipate around 2012 or so), there's no reason the technical achievement of your new body HAS to be realized by the same people that are going to keep you afterwards. Just a thought, anyways - this is all academic at this point.
Oki... one more tidbit of pestering: I love the ways you think. As I read through your personal lj, I found myself moved to reply to several of your posts. The first one that caught my attention was On 24 / 7 BDSM Relationships and the Treatment of Slaves - Repeat and Clarification, and that thought was foremost in my mind for all of the other posts to which I commented (as is quite evident as you read them). No, it's not an obsession of mine (well, maybe it is a little bit), but simply that the aforementioned post set the tone for my mind as I read through the rest of your lj.
well... I have an engineer who intends to do the cybernetics development work for my evolved body; however, she's been consistently lamenting that we need a qualified surgeon onboard, because her skillsets involve the development of the non-biologic components and she feels terribly underqualified in working with the 'meatbag' components. The timeframe involved with the advanced development work is likely to coincide with your own timeframe (5-10 yrs hence), so perhaps a partnership could be developed there.

According to my ultimate vision, there will come a point in the project where i cease to be a 'person' and become a 'machine' - which i suppose would theoretically strip me of the right to have any binding voice in the decision-making process about what is to be done with 'my' body... because, quite frankly, by that point, it won't be 'mine' anymore - it will be a collection of components, owned by my Engineer(s) that just happen to be driven by the 'Ghost In the Shell' formerly known as 'me'.

Contrary to my posturing and blustering in response to your 'slave' post in your personal lj, wherein i was defeating my very own attempts to refute your thesis, i very neatly fit the category of 'pet'; the only reason i resisted the label at all is because i have been forced to serve in the unnatural role of my own Owner, as a 'stray' for so long that i had gone 'feral'.

"she knows right from wrong, she knows that other people's feelings are important, but she either can't or won't think about the consequences of her actions rationally. She follows her heart, not her head, and frequently makes poor rational decisions as a result."

Far too true. In the uncomfortable role as my own Owner, i made many ill-advised decisions regarding my life, based simply on the fact that, despite having a highly developed intellect, my primary motivators still (and always will) remain my emotional needs.

Your entire last paragraph in the description of the 'pet' strikes quite close to home as well: the strong sense of direction and goals that i have established for myself came from being an unowned 'stray' where i *had to* set my own directions and agenda. i'd love nothing better than to feel secure in the knowledge that i have an Owner who will set appropriate agendas for me, and relieve me of the need to do so for myself.

As you said: "I'm going to be absolutely convinced that what *I* want is going to be a hundred times better than ANYTHING YOU ever came up with." Because i am so uncomfortable with setting agendas for myself, it wouldn't be hard for ME to be absolutely convinced of the same - once my proposal is heard thru, i can't imagine objecting to a 'better idea'.

i *crave* someone else to make decisions for me, so that i don't have to bother my pretty little head about such things, and can just stick to what i do best: personifying the aspects of affection, love, loyalty, protection, comfort, and companionship - and leaving anything more complex than that for my Owner to worry about. As long as my physiological survival needs are being met, all that really matters to me are my emotional needs.

i have a greater fear of being abandoned than of being abused; i've been abused terribly in the past, and i accepted it for a year, rather than face the spectre of being discarded and finding myself 'stray' again. Once my former owner 'broke' me with the continuous abuse, she finally discarded me anyway, and i landed in a mental hospital recovering from PTSD; i am somewhat shaken, but not ashamed, to acknowledge that if she had continued to abuse me, rather than abandoning me, i would have remained hers indefinitely.

My mantra has long been: "Friends and lovers may come and go, but the love and devotion of a pet is forever." after encountering so many who want me to be sickeningly 'human', i'd merely despaired of ever finding anyone who could appreciate that which i have to offer, so developed the rough shell of a stray gone feral. Just seeing that there is someone out there who can grok what i'm feeling from the other side - the perspective of the Dominant - gives me a sense of renewed hope. Even if you provide me with nothing else, i thank you for giving me that comfort.

On a COMPLETELY different topic from my previous posts, i'm going to address your last two pictures here: why did you choose to grant the greater mobility afforded by fusing the wrists at the front of the body, rather than the more restrictive fusion that would have resulted from doing so behind the back? I'm not disputing your choice by any means, merely curious as to your motivation.

For that particular girl, the idea was twofold.

One, letting her crawl provides an additional bit of fun - she's mobile enough to make a show of getting away, but definitely not mobile enough to actually do it. Likewise, she can be left enough alone when she's not being used to make it to the bathroom on her own, cutting down on anoyance.

Two, putting her arms in front provides an interesting bit of fun as a sex-toy: her legs can be 'stepped into', and then her arms wrapped around the neck of whoever's using her, and at that point her body is wrapped around his in a lover's embrace, no matter how she may actually feel about it.

There's a lot of 'finding one's true form' going on in most of my work, whether consentual or non. There's a certain class of bubble-headed highschool/college girl, awarded far more body than soul, that needs to be starkly reminded of what they're letting themselves being used as, and what aspects of themselves they've wasted and therefore no longer need. On the other end, there's people that have made the conscious decision to discard aspects of themselves, that just need their decisions manifest in their flesh. I'm down with either, but the primate-dominance circuits of my brain take a certain visceral satisfaction with the idea of the former.
i recognized that there was a conscious decision made to specifically grant the added level of mobility, and based on my reading of your other works, it was clear to me that there would be a deeper reason for it than 'simple' aesthetics. Thank you for enlightening me with the explanation.
Ialdabaoth, my greetings to you. Tepsiar has told me about you and convinced me to join up here, not something I do easily for reasons.
Though I am not much for having my body changed all that much, say for restoring my pointed ears. However I am very interested in people who do wish "radical changes" to their bodies and your ideas on it are I have to admit interesting, but I can say I don't much care for the sexual part of it so clearly expressed. I would have to say where as your interest seems to be in the living, mine is in the dead. Oh, the things I could do with a fine corpse.